Hello Composers! 
So there are a lot of various phrase/loop based sample libraries on the market. Like Action Strings, Action Strikes by Native Instruments. And Ostinato Strings and Ostinato Brass by Sonokinetic.
And of course many percussion phrase/loop libraries, vocal phrases and so on.
What are your thoughts on these kinds of plugins and tools, do you use them, and how? Do you find that it helps your workflow, or hinders it due to the restrictions of phrases?
I’m not a big fan of them in general, and I can’t remember ever using an actual sampled loop or phrase, actually… I’ve used Action Strikes and VPS Avenger sounds with arpeggios at times, but usually it’s like with synth presets; I either modify them, or make my own from scratch.
Obviously, the main reason for this is that I don’t want to use instantly recognizable loops, phrases, or sounds, especially not if they have a lot of personality, as it can become something like the musical equivalent of a photo collage.
Another motivation is that I want to fully understand the feel and expression of anything I put in my compositions, and thus, I kind of have to learn to actually play it anyway.
Of course, with a good ear and training, it shouldn’t be a problem to “reverse engineer” phrases to play along with them, but that takes us to my third motivation for not using phrases: I usually already have a clear idea of what I want to do, so trying to find phrases that fit that would be difficult and backwards.
I agree with you, since I have personally “failed” using them as well, I’m not sure why. I do use arpeggiators, step effects etc. for rhythms, but pre-recorded phrases are so “locked” that I feel restricted.
hello
i have used some and i continue to use phrase loop
the main positive positive point you have access to a lot of ready to use phrases for your composition and for that you win a lot of time to work on the melody
to me it is useful but warning i think you have no control of the phrase it still the same all the time you can change the tempo but not the motif inside
i have heard that some library comes with midi file to import in your daw in order to program yourself the phrase, to change it, to change note, rythm and so on that is a great idea
eastwest cloud has a lot of library with plenty of phrase but more than half of them can’t be used because bad sequencing, bad tune, bad tempo, bad mood , too short, well for me there is a lot of bad point on phrase and loop library
Did you see the Sonokinetic phrase libraries? Those are the most interesting to me since you can change the root of the ostinato as well as chord notes, and the phrase engine takes care of the pulse so to speak.
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Hi, I’ve looked at some of the phrase loops. Splice was recommended by a couple of the people where I teach who are into hip hop. I’m afraid I don’t get it. I’ve found it easier to write something myself.
I have used drum loops on some more contemporary/guitar things.
I think it all depends on the situation. If a loop fits well, I use it, but always try to make still my own. I now talk about rhythmic loops, like Damage or Action Strikes. If you want to use a vocal sample, it will almost never work to use it well. Maybe only if you compose arabian music every day…why is this a trend, I still don’t understand…almost every solo vocal library uses the arabian scales, at least what I have experienced.
I used them quite a lot when I started composing, especially the mentioned ones Actions Strikes and Action Strings, then some guitar based from NI. First of, because I basically had no clue where to start and second, those phrases already sounded somewhat good, if you know what I mean. But lately, I feel like I am cheating a bit when I am using it, lol. So I don’t use them that much anymore, however… I still do. Not as a main drive of the composition tho, but as side or underground fill up… if it fits well and sounds good, why not.
And with drum loops, which I still use in every piece, I use them as one of the base layer and I then I basically enhance the base. Kinda thought that everyone does that, as doing all drums by myself, that would take ages 
I agree Mia, I think phrase/loop libraries work the best with percussion for me too. I never manage to make it work with vocal phrases, violin/string phrases etc. Unless they are simply monophonic ostinato pulses, which I think is easy to record anyway.
Drum loops can also as you say just be there as an extra layer, not the main percussion groove. Just to spice it up.
you’re right Mikael for percussion loop library is great and very helpful
I’m not a big fan of them generally but I do use them when I am pressed for time. For example, if i’m composing a jingle or a PSA it may be a lot easier to collect phrase/loop ideas together, edit and beat sync them and transpose them if need be.
I am putting together some action music for my students and decided to try Action Strings and Actions Stikes. I find Action Strings to be neat, but also limiting. You can’t edit the phrases and there are a limited number of them. I find myself wanting to change notes or rhythms but can’t. I’m also not too crazy about the sound of it.
But Action Strikes appears to be more flexible and useful. I think I will be using it more in my own compositions.
Action Strings just sound stiff and synthetic to me (no round-robins, no velocity layers or anything, AFAICT), but even as someone who prefers to play everything, I’ve found Action Strikes rather nice and useful at times! Of course, it offers the sounds as a kit as well, but the loops are well made, and have enough variations to cover plenty of use cases.
Percussion always is kinder to loops/triggers, but in Action Strikes I even think there is MIDI hidden behind the scenes, not actual phrases?
Personally, I am staying away from percussion loops. They may help to provide an idea on how write your percussion sections for example. BUT, for that, you need to be fully aware that you are only using it as a place holder. It is very easy to settle with the high production quality of a loop but, in the end, as a composer, I find it similar to cheating, so I rather challenge myself to compose something original and simpler.
I did use it in a couple of tracks. One was years ago and was because time was of the essence and another one only because the orchestral mockup was already taking up so much RAM that I decided to keep the percussion loops.
in action strike all instrument are individual sample, there is a little sequencer insider to build your own loop
look like midi sequencer
some information here :
https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/native-instruments-action-strikes
Yepp, I have Action Strikes, but I haven’t really used the internal patterns yet. I simply used the individual sounds for sequencing on my own in Logic.
it is the better way it use the percussion , i do the same thing with damage, in damage there is nidividuals sounds that are amazing and there are also some loop kit
Better…hmm…I don’t like making judgements like that. It is my own preference, but I am also open to try using more “loops/phrases” to spice up my main grooves with extra layers. I don’t see anything wrong with that at all.
Wait; Damage has loops too? I’ve used it a fair bit, but only ever kits (plenty of velocity layers and round-robins there too, BTW), so I’ve either never checked out the loops, or forgot that I did. 