- Has anyone used Tuneport to sell on your own website?
- Or … are you providing Amazon, iTunes, soundcloud, etc links?
- Or …?
There was a discussion recently:
I saw some people do it with great success. 9k+ month income through Patreon. But no royalties. So they’ve build a fan-base with film makers who pay 10-15 bucks a month and have excess to all tracks and can use them everywhere.
If this is what you want, you can give it a try. I’ll created a new website for myself and my co-producer where I’ll re-link my best music to publishers, so if a client wants to license, they just click on a link.
For me royalty free is not an option, because when someone uses my music and makes money with it, I want to have a fair cut. Royalty free means the same like having no „patent“, and most royalty free tracks are low-quality tracks that can be put together in 2 hours with little knowledge on production. It’s a great business model for people who don’t respect their own music. That’s my opinion. Even if I don’t earn 9k a month with my music, I still want to respect my music and the time I have put into making it.
I see more and more websites that are ripping off composers who „just“ want to make a buck with their tracks. Stupid, as it’s like saying: „Hey, here is my track, place it somewhere, I just want 5 bucks, do whatever you want with it. Sell, resell, use in high-paid campaigns.“
When you sell your soul, you’ve lost the game. Music is your soul. Sell it only if you feel it’s worth it.
In order to sell something, people need to know that you have something to offer. So in order to make money, you need traffic of potential clients. You need to market yourself, use proper SEO, paid Ads, build a blog, so I think that the only guy who is winning here is the guy who is selling you this plugin. It can work, but yet again, do you want to SEO and writing a blog how your music is going to help your customer, or making music and giving it to people who are making deals full-time with real clients and real campaigns? All these websites sound great until you realize that nothing will change until you come up with a better concept.
I hope that makes sense.
Thanks for sharing what you know.
I have a bunch of instrumental soundtracks on AudioMicro and also land gigs from Scorekeeper, etc.
However most of my income as a composer is from a direct relationship with creatives in the TV and Radio commercial world.
What I’m specifically wanting is to make it CONVENIENT for folks to buy my albums/SONGS.
I’m using the regular iTunes, Amazon, outlets but want to explore making music available on my website. ( http://audiogirlproductions.com/ )
no I haven’t heard about them. I still believe that sites like Bandcamp is better than iTunes and all others that takes your money for nothing. If these platforms would market your music, or do anything to support you as an artist, this would be a different story, so Bandcamp is they only Platform I respect.
I am glad that you rely on relationships and not on the platforms. If you just want to sell some tracks, start Bandcamp. You don’t need anything else. Their player looks nice, you can even customize.
Yes, it’s all about “relationships” definitely. And Bandcamp is on the “check it out” list.
Good to know you’re happy with it.
+1 for Bandcamp but Tuneport looks really nice.
The advantage of having Bandcamp is that it’s a big platform in itself where people go to listen to and buy music. You hopefully drive/get traffic both from your homepage and from Bandcamp instead of only from your homepage.
Great points… I’d also say that once a few people do this then they spoil it for everyone else because some film guys will say to their film guy friends, “hey don’t pay for that, you can get it for free”.
I’ve often heard the comparison of “you wouldn’t ask a plumber to work for free so why would you ask a musician?” Which is a great comparison… but there’s one issue with it… plumbers or electricians are very good at negotiating money. If you said the same thing to a plumber they’d laugh and put the phone down. This actually happens to plumbers. They get the same issues but they simply only take work off people worth their time. This is something that musicians NEED to start getting better at. It’s the same with free music, sure it’s ok if you know someone and see doing it for a favour because that’s mutual, you went to them… but if they come to you and ask for a free by then that is NOT ok.
ufff…you touched some very important things…
I mean seriously, we can talk hours about this kind of topic, but the important message you have already said: If an electrician is capable of asking for money for his service, why do music-people are so shy to ask for money too? Most musicians that I know think that even if giving private lessons for 25-30€ are enough. No it’s not. It can be a long discussion because we could touch some interesting things here, but we need to be honest for a second…
When someone comes to me, asking me for help, “can you do this, can you do that…?” I am in the position to say if I want to be paid or not, that’s clear. If I see that I can help in a few minutes, all cool, I don’t need to charge someone for that…but if I see that his/her issue will take me hours, days, weeks to do…I will 100% not do that job for free, even if this would be my best friend…it’s just a normal transaction between two people…it’s service, it’s mentorship, it’s guidance, it’s help, it’s passion to help. If I know he can help me too with something, we can organize that too without looking at some money and treating it like serious business, but I have realized with the years, that the less I am asking for, the more people treat me like an idiot, don’t take me serious enough, and at the end “I” need to give them…without receiving…so it can go very quickly into this “ego”-type of thing which is not really nice. So people think: “How can I get the most out of him without paying anything…?” -> Yes, this is 100% how people think if you offer them help without asking for money or anything else!
If we talk about money…25-30€ lessons…forget that. I see these prices everywhere, and what I can clearly say is that those people didn’t understand the business-model. First, where do you live? If you live on Madacascar, you would be a king after a year of working for 30€/h. In Germany for example, if I work for myself, self-employed, those prices will give more troubles than you think. First, you try to earn as much as you can…because like almost everyone can afford to pay you this. Second, because you think that everyone can afford this, you can have a lot of clients, but you will not make a progress at all, due to two main factors: time and taxes. Time, you work like a horse, because you’ve touched the whole market, 97% can pay you that, remember, and taxes, which almost no self-employed guys are paying attention too, start to say that it doesn’t make sense to work self-employed at all…you work like a horse, and you are responsible for making sure to pay the right amount of taxes that no-one really understands how it works…there are many more things to mention like, you still need to pay your room, equipment, internet, electricity, food, traffic, etc. and that’s what most people don’t think about…they think they have 30€ in their pocket. And after working for a year, they ask themselves where all the money is and why they are in debt??? I know these people…
Then these people say, it’s not worth it, too much stress, doesn’t work out, bad clients, bad this, bad that…yep, I have said that before…free work and low money attracts more people who have no clue what you are doing, why you are important, why your service is special, but most importantly, these people don’t appreciate your VALUE! So before I work with someone, I’ll make sure that this person truly understands my service and the value behind it and why I don’t charge 30 an hour. Not only because electricians charge more, who only had 3 years experience in that field, but because I value my personal value. As long as YOU don’t understand that, you have no perspective in succeeding with your brand and business. Even if you get client after client, you will see that with 30 an hour as a musicians, self-employed guy, you will not be treated serious enough, so most people will not see any value in your service and work. Again, I speak here for Germany. If your country-standards say, 30 is really high, all cool, but here, it’s already under radar.
All in all I just want to say that people from countries like Russia, Ukraine, etc. come here as immigrants, have a super high-valued expertise in music and co. and start to charge 10-15€ private 60mins lessons…the same goes for plattforms like Fiverr etc. so for me, it’s not a secret why most musicians out here complain about their financial situation that they aren’t paid high enough. Because they just except what they get, and this is exactly the case why most people who ask for music services don’t understand why they need to pay you 500€ a gig, and not only 100€…“You are too expensive, the other guy wanted only 100€…” uffff…
There are plenty of gigs that I refuse to do, even if I am asked for. If I see that there is no value for me, and value can even mean working for free sometimes, happens too of course, no secret, but if the guys on the other hand don’t look like they truly value my work, I say “Sorry, I am not interested.”
It can sound arrogant, I know, but I know many people around me who do it the same, and I deeply celebrate it. It only helps the industry, because we show people that our work should be treated the right and fair way, at least as good as an electrician.
The bottom line is: Work with people who truly value your service. Most of them will always find the money somewhere to pay for your service.
Yes money is a touchy subject with musicians and it shouldn’t be. It inevitably comes down to just two things… and they aren’t even related to money.
I believe most musicians suffer with these to some extent.
Our self worth directly affects how much we are willing to charge… though there are other factors that will effect how much you are able to charge (such as demographic), the biggest thing to understand is that we charge what we think we are worth… and if we don’t believe that then perhaps we are slightly misguided.
For instance, my self worth has gradually increased over the past worth… ironically it’s grown at a similar pace as my confidence. I’m 29 and only just feeling confident enough I’m my own abilities… this is nothing to do with my actual abilities, but rather because I listened to others around me too much and they belittled me. If anyone tells you (whoever reading this) that you are less than you believe you are them cast them out of your life. You do not need that because the truth is you are worth far more, as we always undervalue ourselves, this is human nature… and this even applies to plumbers. People say they charge a lot but they are skilled labourers. An if they are skilled then we a specialised skilled composers who should be on so much more.
The second is imposter syndrome, which I believe is killing creativity. I used to have this really bad and it comes and goes with me. Though, what I have learnt is that imposter syndrome tells you that your work will never be good enough… I had no idea this is what I actually had until about half a year ago… around about the same time as I told you @jlx_music that I was working towards starting my YouTube channel back up. As soon as I realised I took action and that is what we need to do. We need to take control and start believing our work is good. In this forum we give advice, but we give adoce on already great music… it’s been very rare that I’ve listened to someone’s track and thought “this needs too much work done to it”. It’s often just the finer details we get hooked up on and those will come in time for the majority… and often that stuff is actually an issue simply because as a composer you may be fighting against the samples instead of working with their strengths. so I believe in this forum no one should struggle wirh this… and we can all make a good wage from music.
You’d spoke about tuition prices. I actually tutor for only £10 for 30 minutes tuition which is very low… however, I’ve tried for £30 per hour and the demographic in my area doesn’t support that, so this is something you need to consider… I do teach online a little too which I charge that amount for, but that’s because the demographic is much broader online so you can get away with it.
I totally understand that! I’ve never said that it’s going to be easy just to say: This is my price, and you see thousands of people jumping on it and can’t wait to have a coaching session with you.
However, I still believe it comes to one important thing: Marketing. Not only that you negotiate well enough, so people understand that what you are doing has value, but if it doesn’t work out the way you want to, maybe you can try out to “re-package” your service.
There are two main things involved: Do I charge per hour, or per package? This depends on the service of course, but especially tuition doesn’t make any sense to charge per hour and I’ll tell you why:
First, people start to compare what they charge per hour. And if they do charge less, or earn less, they think that you rip them off. Of course not, but it’s the way it is. I know it because I had many situations where people look at me like I came from Mars So I started to think about how to re-package my service, no matter what it is, but to charge for a package where people see that many things are covered, so they see the value. Again, marketing stuff, but it helps your business and your client too ->
Second, your client, the customer is thinking all the time about money, when the lesson is over because if you didn’t cover something in the lesson, he has to invest in the next lesson again. And often people start to count…and if someone is counting it means that he is not focused anymore, where we come to the point numero 3…
Third, the more we are focused on money, the less we are focused on the main task. Learning, product, service, whatever we offer. So basically the changes are very low that your student will succeed long-term because if you want him to succeed long-term, you need to get him hooked long-term, and this can only be done with long-term tuition, 4, 6, 12 months. If we really talk about tuition here specifically. When someone asks me for coaching, I never coach for an hour, it doesn’t make sense even to say it was coaching. It’s more consulting, and you can charge much more for consulting, one-hour session because you know that there will be probably no more future with that client. It’s most-likely one-time.
I’ll coach for at least 4 months, and that’s why I am able to earn the amount that I want to have because I offer long-term value with focus and priority for my student. Try it out, and I guarantee you more results on your bank account. It has nothing to do with how much your demographic has in their pocket, it has more with how you sell your service to them. You can have a hair-cut for $10, 5-minutes walk another guy is charging $250. He is not more talented, he is not more skilled, he re-packed his offer in a way that people see more value, that’s why he earns more money, at least what he wants to earn. Seriously, even if you have one client that will pay you X…would you be working for 10X time with 10 clients?
I had this discussion many times, because people often say, “they don’t have money to pay me…” and then you realize that those people are buying driving cars for 60K. The one who sees the value will pay what you want them to pay, if not tell them this: “How many cups of coffee do you usually drink per week at your work?” If they say: “10”, then count it for one year, and then they will quickly realize that they do have extra cash if they really are into what you are offering them.
There is a great video about how we see “money”, I have to find it again, it basically shows you the way you should approach to have a more relaxed mind. The example of my own life: As you might know I work part-time as an engineer in a theater. I had so many offerings to go full-time, here and there…however, working full-time for someone else has only disadvantages for me personally. Yes, I could earn more money, have a better flat, car, this, that, feel “safe”…how one of my colleagues said it the last time, but there is one factor that drives me crazy when I work full-time which I did for some years. Time. I don’t have time for myself, for my family, for anything really, and on top, I need to invest even more time to work for myself? Well, thank you, no. I did it, it’s 70+ hour weeks for more materialism? I started to think about life in general. You know, someone does it with 50+, I did it with 26.
And I was never a guy who showed off what beautiful and expensive watches I had on my wrist. So I quickly came to the conclusion, that the only thing that counts for me is my time, where I decide what I do, where I do, even with whom I do haha, that was funny, but I think you got the point. So I’ll better work 40 hours a week on my own thing, than 40 hours for someone else who pays me what he wants me to pay, not what I want him to pay me. Big difference. I know that at some point creativity will always pay off, you just need to have a vision and turn it into reality aka goal -> executing. Like you’ve said: Know your worth. Start to build your idea around it. If it doesn’t work, fix it.
It’s pure will if you want to get there or not. One life, one dream. What do you do? I know some super-wealthy people personally, and it never comes down to money, it always comes down to how you feel and who you are. Many people want to famous and rich, and you ask them one simple question: “What experience do you want to make?” What it feels like when you have money on the bank and an expensive car in your garage that you use once in a while? Most of them struggle with life more than “normal” people think they are, I’ll speak again from personal experience.
It comes down to one important thing: Your inner feel. How do you feel inside? Good or bad? Positive, negative? What do you regret what you haven’t done what you have always really wanted? I do regret for example that I didn’t continue my YouTube Channel from 2012. I wasn’t good, yes, but I could do it as a dairy, for example, showing the world what I learn, today, tomorrow, etc. I truly believe that I would be in a much better position than I am today where I need to show people that I know what I speak about like that I need to prove myself. If you have 10K following, you don’t need to prove so much anymore. 10K people are interested in your message. Or always hearing from people: “Can I trust you, like who you are?” I quit. Because someone said, “Stop uhh and ahhh, it sucks!” I deleted the channel. It’s just an example, and there are definitely many more. So regret for me will always be the biggest poison, as I miss opportunities that lead myself to other opportunities, and after a why the success that you always wanted for yourself.
Haha! Yes, I totally have this. I don’t think my work is good enough, regardless. I spend too much time comparing it to what’s actually successful/popular. That’s why I haven’t yet really taken the plunge on establishing the business side of things. I don’t have the confidence to say I’m on that level. When I can start writing at least B+ quality stuff within a day or two, then I think I’m on the way.
Well I can say your probably working at that now my friend. Just go for it, thr worst thing I did was wait until I felt I was ready… you can start making money now! And that’s a wonderful thing to say and you are definitely good enough. I’ll inbox you a cool story.
I think there might be two things at play, like we’re musicians and composers, that’s what we love. We don’t ‘love’ money–it’s a necessity but turning the pure love of music into a for profit business seems too detached from the art. Well that’s how I see it anyway. I didn’t want to be a composer so I could be a millionaire; I just love music, and don’t want to lose that.
I can’t remember who told me this, it was an instructor for some music biz class, but he said just name your price. Period. Purposely overcharge and just use it as a starting point to see how much your client can or is willing to spend. If you want $500, charge $1500 and when they work you down, you might get what you want, $500 or something more, $600-700. He said he usually gets more than he planned on.
Well I appreciate the kind words. Yourself, this forum and many others here are helping me out tremendously. @Mikael’s contests have really boosted my work rate, creativity and quality in a short time. I think my pieces for the Action and Sad music contests were some of the best stuff I’ve done, and now I can go back and hear the mistakes in my older pieces, correct some of them and give them better quality.
I’m just unsure of where to put my eggs when starting the business end. Streaming? Paid downloads? Libraries? Self publish? Makes my head spin!
Definitely go down the library route… maybe start with Gargantualn music library and work with them until you get some tracks put on their site… then when you are on I’d create more work like the track that got accepted. Do research on exactly what is getting accepted on the website too and how it’s being composed. This will help you out a lot!
Will check it out. I have a whole list of libraries from my music licensing class (though that’s two years old now). Should probably get registered with ASCAP as well, finally, after thinking about it for 3 years😅
Haha well I need to do the British equivalent to be honest I do independent work at the moment so I get a bigger pay check up front but no back end. So I’ll be doing the same!