No the track is not private to my knowledge, I just checked, it should be public? https://soundcloud.com/mo7ex/i-will-prevail should work?
Yeah I am still learning it to be honestā¦ its not easy to say the least. I am taking a break now for a few minutes because I am going crazy lol.
And I do not know if Ableton has a loudness meterā¦I do not think my standard version has oneā¦
it seems they have one on the website of ableton for free, will check it out
edit: its not really free, you get a lite version for free but I will check that one out. It is Youlean Loudness Meter.
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It shows me this:
Do I need to look at the top stat, the 9.4 one or the lower stats that are not in the box?
I think it are the top two in the box? If those are it then I put it way too loudā¦ goes beneath 9 at times.
Yes, that works. (What I found was your other account, with two electronic tracks.)
What strikes me is that itās extremely loud by classical/orchestral standards, much closer to what Iād expect from EDM and the like. Since thereās no thundering bass or anything, there shouldnāt really be a need for more than a look-ahead limiter to catch any random peak above -0.1 dB, and there should be no audible side effects of that.
If you really need it this loud, thatās going to call for various tricks both in the mix and in the master, kind of like playing Tetris with the frequencies and waveforms. It can be done, but the question you need to ask is not how to avoid artifacts (thatās not physically possible), but which artifacts you prefer.
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Yeah I just wanted to have the same loudness as the masteringbox track. I used the loudness meter now but still waiting on an answer for which stats I need to check, I looked at the top two and went on with that but its only a little bit less loudā¦ but its ranging between -9 and -13 now like Geofrey suggested but it seems only to be a little bit more silentā¦
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So you suggest, if I get this right, just to use a limiter? no compressor?
Well, most streaming services seem to aim at around -14 LUFS now (and theyāll adjust the gain of tracks to match that!), but traditionally, classical music is/has been more like -23 LUFS, AFAIK.
Anyway, keep in mind that this is logarithmic, whereas the audio is linear samples. +6 dB is only perceived as āclearly a bit louder,ā but in terms of raw samples, thatās all values doubled! So, given a normalized bit of audio, even raising the loudness by a barely noticeable 2 dB will result in severe clipping, and may not go unnoticed without sophisticated processing.
Indeed; in this case, I donāt think there should be a need for compression here. (Unless you want a closer/more intimate sound, though thatās probably best done in the mix.) Master compression is generally a tool for managing extreme dynamics, to avoid driving the limiter too hard.
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Thats not a bad idea because I seemed to be changing the sound of my used instruments a lot with EQ and dynamic compression just to get them to work togheterā¦ so things sounded different then the not master oneā¦
But it seems so silent nowā¦ I can hear the birds sing.
I did not know there was an outside place too, the birds are there, they are calling me.
Will do the song all over again, sorry birds, and see how that turns out.
Edit: Well I did a rough version of it, mixed it again, changed the EQ on instruments and master buss and dropped the compression. I do not like it to be honest. Its to silent in my opinionā¦
When people play this song they will put their volume up just to hear it, and then when another song follows it will make them jump because of the volume level being way louderā¦ so yeah, I do not know if that is an optionā¦
I will upload the somewhat more silent one, where I used the loudness meter. And that will have to do for now I am afraid, I am getting an headache and really need a break I thinkā¦
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Lo and behold - there is a space outside the house here too, with birds, plants and stuff. 
Well, that is indeed a problem, and thatās why streaming services have these recommended loudness levels, and adjust tracks to match them. The problem with that is that you pretty much have to adhere to their standards, or there will be problems when their automated processing tries to bend your tracks to conformance.
That said, -14 LUFS is not all that loud, even for classical music (though it may require some tricks to minimize artifacts) - but keep in mind that SoundCloud does NOT apply any loudness normalization, and there is a lot of extremely loud tracks on there, probably mastered by veterans from the Loudness War. I donāt think thatās a healthy standard at this point.
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So you would put the peak around -14 if I understand it right?
Well, to be clear, the true peak level should be just below 0 dB. (Most standards put it at -1 dB; some suggest -2 for loud tracks. This is to avoid clipping in codecs and DACs.)
LUFS/LKFS is essentially RMS, weighted for human hearing (K-weighting), and this is what should typically be -14 for streaming, and -24 for film/TV/games.
Not entirely sure about the exact definitions and numbers, but most streaming services state āmax integrated,ā so that would be for the loudest parts of your track, integrated over a few seconds. (3 s integration is mentioned a lot; not sure if thatās the official definition.)
That is, more dynamic music would have a lower average LUFS over the whole track, and could be louder than -14 for brief moments, whereas EDM/pop/ā¦ would pretty much be a constant -14 LUFS.
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Yeah I think I am just gonna use the limiter option you suggested on my tracks. It is a bit hard to make them all on the same kind of volume level doing that but I will do my best trying to do that.
I like trumpets a lot. So I put them on as good as every song. I am still trying to get past the first part of my second song and I seem to really need to make the sound in something I do not like it to be. I need to take away so much mid it does not sound good anymore. I do not like that to be honest.
I am just a noob, I do not even know half the time what I am doing and its just not worth it anymore. If every track is gonna cause me to have to listen to the first 8 bars over and over again for hours in a row just to try to get the trumpet from hell to fit in the composition, without raising the limiter bar over 0.10 and maintaining the sound and overall volume of the track, I do not know if I like doing that. I thought the second song would go easier now I knew what I was looking for, its possible I have that Euraka moment again at one point but for what, to have to do it all over again tomorrow with the next song. Two days of headache are enough in my book lol.
Yeah I put the ceiling of my limiter on 0.10.
Thank you for your many help Olofson, it is really appreciated. I thank you for your time you put in helping me.
Edit: I meant with peak of the song the loudest part. Is it good if that one is around -14 and if the other parts are more silent like -17-20? Or is that bad?
I must have done something wrong because its really silent nowā¦ I have to put my volume up twice as much on my computer to have the same level of volume when I had the other thing going on. Is that normal??? It is on its loudest part around -14 with loudness meter. I have not put any compression on itā¦ I am so sorry for the many questions but this seems to be very silent, I do not know if that is the right thing to doā¦
This is how that version sounds, you say this is better? https://soundcloud.com/mo7ex/1-i-will-prevail-with-limiter-only/s-rTC7I2N65os
No sorry, this is not good, when another song starts (which Soundcloud does automaticly) from someone else after my track its twice as loud. No thats not an option I am afraid
Maybe around 2:44 mark is where there seems to be washing out a bit of other instrument sounds, around 4:05 and after it sounds balanced which is a good way to have the whole song feel like this section. I learned recently you should open mixer window and bring down all levels of tracks than slowly bring them all back up during playback and start over again with your mix with the levels, when you want something louder, bring other levels down or use automation for the eq on that track youāre trying to make stand out.
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I think google is spying on me as this was suggested. Itās basically an explaination about why you should cut out sub frequencies which I suggested above already.
Iāve watched this and itās a very very good tutorial. Enjoy 
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I already do thatā¦ I do it at each instrument with a EQ and on the masterbuss I even put a Filter effect doing it and then an EQ doing it.
Jimmy, my best advice is that you should not focus at all on mixing and mastering right now. You mentioned you just started with this new style of music. Focus on composing more and more tracks, try new sample libraries, instruments etc.
Mixing and mastering is the last step, and everyone seem to focus on it far too early. Composition, meaning chords, harmony, scales, arrangement, instrumentation, layering etc. is 1000 times more important than mix and master.
I barely do anything with my mixes and mastering, because with a great composition it basically naturally will sound good. I hope this advice can resonate with you, and will find you well.
Listen to one of my compositions here, I barely did anything at all in the mixing and mastering, yet it sounds lovely and professional. That comes from the composition, not mixing and mastering!
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I think I found the solutionā¦ Its a stupid oneā¦
All my instruments had its volume in the plugin on 100. I saw in the EQ that the frequencies all topped over the zero bar. I tried to get these as low as possible, squashing the whole sound and it was not even enough.
Now I thought, but what if I just lower the volume IN the plugin. So not in ableton on track but in the plugin itself. Untill it goes under the zero bar in EQ (each instrument) and then put the ones that need to be a bit louder up in ableton on the track bar.
Well I think it worked, I still have a little bit of clipping in limiter, but I can easily take that away I think by playing around a little bit with eq on each instrument. Before it did not matter what I did, it kept clipping in limiter as soon as I wanted to gain it. I even had to change the sound itself completely with EQ by reducing so much mid, it did not even sound the same anymore. Now I just did a high pass as usual on everything and a smiley eq and it seems to work for the most part. Can easily make the smiley face on instruments a bit bigger and I am sure that will do the job.
So yeah, how I come to this idea, I do not know, but I did. I think this will solve all of it.
@Mikael yes I do not really want to master it to its fullest extent, but I would like to at least that the soundtrack is at the same volume level as other songs. Some songs are really loud, the professional ones, I am not looking for that, but at least some kind of loudness so that the difference is not to big when people hear the next song. Soundcloud automaticly plays the songs I liked after you hear my song. It would be a disaster if there was to much of a difference there I thinkā¦
My advice remains, donāt even do mixing and mastering until you composed at least 20-30 full tracks or more. And loud is not the same thing as good. I hate the loudness war personally. My composition, and many other composers are not loud, yet sound professional.
Please please, donāt focus on mixing and mastering. It is like spending 5 days to āpolish a kick drumā instead of making more and more tracks. You will become a better composer and create better music, only if you keep making lots of more music. I promise you this, as I made the same mistakes back in the days on focusing on the technical side (EQ, compression, mixing etc.). My music started improving a LOT more when I started focusing on the music composition itself!
I will close this thread now, as it keeps bumping in the forum, and you have more answers than you need already!
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