the english horn is in the woodwind section in the major writing software, the english is sounding like the oboe but with more emotion and vibe, it is built with the same materials than the oboe and the technic is the same with the double reed
i don’t know why we call this great instrument the english horn even if it is a woodwind 
Yeah, in software they put it in it’s family but it used to be sat with the horns which is a cool bit of history. Fab thing about the English horn. The majority of the time you hear an oboe playing in its mid range, it’s usually an English horn and the oboe takes back over for the high stuff, often doubled with the clarinet. I think this is because the oval horned endpiece is more rounder of a sound, where the oboe is quite a pokey sound and the clarinet is a full nutty sound.
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The confusion gets worse…
Confusion Level 1:
(Long-time bass trombone player here, since about 1975 - I’ve played in all manner of ensembles, still playing! 
)
The English horn is usually called the “Cor Anglais” here (I know, it translates as the same!).
I’ve never known any orchestral player here to refer to it as anything else…!
In my experience, it only ever sits next to 2nd oboe, in the same way that bass clarinet sits next to 2nd clarinet, piccolo sits next to 1st flute, & contra-bassoon sits next to 2nd bassoon.
And bass trombone sits next to 2nd trombone - it’s a “pitch” thing - if you play a higher instrument, you sit next to the 1st, if lower, you’re next to the 2nd.
Confusion Level 2:
French Horns, in an orchestral score, are grouped with the woodwind, not the brass.
A “Wind Quintet”, which you would assume to be all woodwind (flutes used to made of wood) consists of:
Flute, oboe, clarinet, French horn, and bassoon.
Confusion Level 3:
A " Horn Section" is a 20thC American construct; in Soul, Blues, Traditional Jazz (and others) it can be Trumpet, Alto Sax, Trombone, or any combination of similar (i.e. the ratio of saxes to brass varies, and in trad jazz, it’s a clarinet. Or a sax).
Confusion Level 4:
In “Big Band” Jazz ensembles (i.e. the likes of Count Basie, Duke Ellington, Woody Herman etc), the seating order of players differs from the orchestral 1st-2nd-3rd line-up.
Trumpets are normally: 2nd-1st-3rd-4th
Trombones: 2nd-1st-3rd-Bass
Saxes: Baritone, 2nd Alto-1st Alto, 1st Tenor-2nd Tenor
The above order can be reversed for each section, but generally, the “lead” player is usually kept near the middle.
Confusion Level 5:
Percussion.
Pretty much always at the back, behind everything else. That’s Timpani, Bass Drum, Snare drum, Tubular bells, Xylophone, Tam-tam, Anvil, “Big Iron Chains” (thanks, Schoenberg) and whatever else you can think of!
In my experience, they’re put wherever they’ll fit.
Hope this helps!! 
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Sorry, forget about the Strings! (Forgive me, I’m a brass player…!) 
Confusion Level 6:
Strings.
In a “normal” (standard?) full orchestra, there are:
1st Violins = 16
2nd Violins = 14
Violas = 12
Cellos = 10
Double Basses = 8
As the audience sees:
1st violins are normally to the conductor’s left, near stage front.
2nd violins also left of the conductor , but behind the 1sts.
Violas, stage middle, in front of the woodwinds.
Cellos, to the conductor’s right.
Basses, also to the conductor’s right, but further away, behind the Cellos.
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Thank you Aidan, really nice guide and overview!
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Hello aidan in fact for the strings there are differents layers according to this web site :
https://www.pianoweb.fr/orchestre-classique-disposition-et-evolution-sonore.php
you have the barok orchestra layer :
the classical orchestra of the 19 century
the same with the romantic extension:
and the contemporary or modern:
sorry the nme of the instrument are in frecnh, the altos is viola, the hautbois is oboe, the cors d’harmonie is the french horn
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Awesome, very detailed layout Florent! In my experience these ensembles are played with a lot in terms of layout, due to venue size and orientation. also form my experience at least in the Uk clarinet players are more called upon to play English Horn parts (cor englaise in French), where as you rightly say, usually we expect them next to the Oboe as in other countries its more widely seen as an extension of the Oboe sound… much like the saxophone is an extension of the clarinet due to fingering being similar.
its actually good that you left out the string section size as this is forever changing. Florent rightly stated that the ensembles through the years have gradually got bigger due to either demand in volume or merely pushing the fundamentals of the orchestra… which has also happened with the percussion family, especially tuned percussion.
i think the main thing to be aware of here that yes if we are talking Classical orchestras then we should follow the guidelines and adapt when necessary, but when we are approaching Film or any other modern progression of the orchestra its good to be open minded with our approach. You often find this in music history too, as we romanticise our musical history to be very rigid… for instance we keep things very “traditional” in layouts and approaches these days, but really what we have done is create a modern construct of how we presume it would have been conducted, performed and delivered. its never exactly how the composer originated. We also think of music as being a linear progression that changed gradually, where this wasnt the case… in fact this could be considered more of a Russian construct thats been adopted, as despite Russian composition (fluid and based on folk song) being somewhat alternate from the other Germanic approach which was theory based. music has actually been pulled and pushed through the years as the idea of composition and its evolution has been contended and applauded. these days we have the privilege of seeing it in hindsight, but in reality it was much more messy than we imagine it. even if we went to the composer level we would see parallels of composers being more like the rock stars of the 60s, rather than the higher class people we associated them with today (due to theatre houses and expensive tickets for shows). Composers would often tour via the brothels and monasteries which were the two places youd find alcohol, women and late night antics… which is ironically a sobering thing to think about
i also like to think that as these composers toured around, they would also work with new musicians and ensembles mutating the idea of the piece with each performance. amazing things to consider… live music is so diverse!
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As someone new to orchestration, your tips are gold! Thank you very much especially for the strings and horns advice.
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Glad they are helping! I loved this thread because we discussed a lot of aspects that are actually forever changing.
That’s the great thing about music. It’s still evolving!
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Thanks for the words of wisdom, Geoff! Very informative and practical advice we all need to hear and hear often!
Take care!
Stan
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Thank you Stan I’m glad it was helpful.
I’m sure you know this but all the best orchestrators started out as Trombone players ( pretty much) I learned this from my orchestrator who played The Bone and the way you described where everyone was and how they switched ect has something to do with it but none of them ever said they understood why. My uncle just kept playing the Trombone although he conducted at times. His name was Jack Teagarden.
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Wow! Jack Teagarden is a real legend for trombone players!
One of the earliest greats for the advancement of jazz trombone playing. 
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Yep. My dads mom was a Teagarden and one day when I was just starting to play one of his friends said he sounds good I wonder where he gets it from ? Not the coleman’s. My dad said true but his uncle is Jack Teagarden and he is pretty good. It may sound crazy but my mom says she always sat in ront of a speaker with wonderful music of all genres but especoally Jazz (Coltraine) so I would know instintively how to find the melodic center even behind the abstractions and Bach the great cmposers and gershwin ( for melodies ) and on and on and everyonce in a while I sit down and write something that I think she sent like this https://soundcloud.com/seancoleman/dianne-and-me-because-your-family?in=seancoleman/sets/last-10 and think “Gershwin” I need to write new lyrics for the first verse and maybe a tag
I also like to use brass as a slapback bass/percussion section while playing in stacatto which leaves room for melodies and leads in this case mainly flute. I wrote all the parts so I know I want to transition but I am usually vamping everything unless I start with a player in mind I don’t want to influence. I love to colab on things like this. I know these methods are not for the faint of heart because of peop;es expectations. break those things if you can All these guys can do these different voice leadings and sections that take over percussion eg it’s more a choice and I just suddenly feel. Not instructions like above just a “hey this is nice and CAN be done” https://soundcloud.com/seancoleman/02-africa-symphony-in-the-key-of-hope?in=seancoleman/sets/2017-sean-coleman