Decided to finally create an orchestral template for Infinite Brass and Woodwinds. (I don’t normally use templates, but there is a fair bit of custom setup I want to do for these libs, and Cubase can handle this in a more modular fashion now, so I figured it would be useful.)
I’m using a custom mix of the Studio responses (dry; just positions the instruments on the stage), along with my usual Spaces II + VSS setup, for realism and movement in the reverb. Some EQ tweaks here and there, but for the most part, I like how these instruments sound out of the box, though I haven’t actually orchestrated anything with them yet.
The brass felt kind of strangely detached from the hall with this setup, especially when playing loud and bright, so I also added a third reverb bus, with dynamic expansion, a bit of saturation, and plenty of motion, for more of that intense, lively feel. Not too far off to my ears, but I’ll A/B a bit with other libraries and recordings to see if I can figure out what’s actually going on.
Next, strings and percussion… I have a bunch of options here, but I think what it basically boils down to is selecting libraries per project, as usual, since the traditional libs just aren’t all that flexible. Can’t wait to get my hands on the upcoming Infinite libs!
I am still waiting for the update to Infinite Woodwinds. Btw, regarding modeled instruments: did you check the new SWAM brass? Particularly the trumpet.
Haven’t been keeping track of them lately, though their saxophones have been on my wishlist for a good while. The trumpet is sounding amazing! And they have flugelhorns as well…
Looks very nice indeed! The old UI looked very… retro, I guess? Either way, really liking that sound. In particular, half-valve, bends and all that is sounding pretty convincing. Oh, and mute wah, of course.
The orchestral demos with DivisiMate are pretty impressive as well. Even the strings are sounding pretty good in that context.
What troubles me with the demos of these products is that it’s mostly live playing, and often without proper mixing and production on the audio. I’d like to hear some properly programmed and mixed big band and symphonic pieces. It not even remotely fair to compare live demos to meticulously crafted sample based orchestrations.
Yes, I believe this is by far their best modeled instrument plugin so far. I hope they will up the level on their winds collection, and strings (doubtful).
Been looking at the SampleModeling instruments, and I’m quite impressed with some aspects of them, and not so much in other areas. In particular, the strings have some really good timbres for the most part, but it’s missing the “bite,” as if there isn’t enough rosin, and fingered transitions aren’t distinct enough. (I mean, some players treat the fingerboard like a percussion instrument, which is overdoing it IMHO - but this sounds more like the other extreme: sluggish beginner fingers. ) I can’t determine from the demos if this is a matter of programming, or inherent to the instruments.
It would be interesting to compile a strings ensemble out of both SampleModeling and SWAM strings, to combine their strengths. Also, considering how different real instruments and real players sound, I think variation is a good thing for creating a realistic ensemble sound, so I suppose that’s a case for having some different ones, even if (in a distant future) each one can do “everything.”
I remember us having this discussion before. I am an optimist in the modeling domain, but I agree with you that overall these products lack in overall tone and authentic sound. There are some that stand out though, like MODO Bass, and Pianotec. And this new trumpet from SWAM is very very good to my ears. So I am excited about the progress in this field of acoustic modeling, regardless if it is true modeling, or a hybrid approach.
I have to be a broken record about this. So many If the AM demos are either played by people with little instinct or understanding of the instruments or played without a suitable controller. I can’t name a single played demo that was done without a breath controller that was worth any part of the time spent watching it. It’s so often someone just ignoring dynamics or using some “alternative” controller that uses pressure for dynamics - which is just plain silly. Just doesn’t work ever. Breath controller and velocity keyboard is the only thing that works to me - even dedicated wind controllers aren’t often as good. Also - getting bite out of the AM or SM strings is usually a combination of velocity and breath control (or whatever controller someone insists on using) - you have to hit the note hard for the hard onset. I quite liked the AM Brass up to a point and I’m optimistic about where they take it if they continue to listen to skilled users and don’t emphasize casual musicians or the like. Sometimes it’s as if they made better instruments than they thought.
As I said somewhere else the other day, even a real violin sounds synthetic if played without any expression whatsoever. To make matters worse, it’s actually pretty hard to get a clean, steady tone with absolutely no expression. Same with singing, and most instruments; it’s a constant battle against physics and biology to produce the intended expression, rather than the natural default overlaid with random human fluctuations. Meanwhile, on a modeled instrument, the “dead” tone is what you get by default, whenever you don’t have constant “noise” in the control input.
So, the logical approach would be to use controllers that have the same “problems” as real instruments - that is, they’re essentially a PITA to use, and take ages to master! But seriously, anything that still generates stable, clean output when you’re holding it is probably not going to be very helpful in creating realistic, expressive performances.
Either way, my plan is to keep learning violin and cello, along with various expressive controllers and modeled instruments, approaching them as basically different tools for the same job. I think that’s pretty much the only viable approach at this point.
That said, I certainly have ideas for making modeled instruments more accessible, in a similar fashion to traditional sample libraries, but I’m starting to think that might be a project of roughly the same magnitude as the modeled instruments themselves…
Not quite sure where to put this… My first entry for 2HAC 12 that’s happening this weekend, and I suppose it could serve as a hint as to what you can do real quick with the Infinite libs and a breath controller, outside of classical. Mute trumpet is from Brass, with two clarinets and four saxophones from Woodwinds. All wind parts improvised with minor edits - no drawn curves or anything.
Nah, I’m not very comfortable with these kinds of chords, and still not great at timing and steady patterns, so I just played the rhythm with the basic chords to get the structure and feel down, and did chord inversions, variations etc in the sequencer. Ironically, the left hand in the “half speed” interlude at 1:42 is where I thought I’d run into trouble (absolute PITA to edit that sort of stuff without it sounding all mechanical), but that was basically just recorded as is!
Either way, really liking that sound. In particular, half-valve, bends and all that is sounding pretty convincing. Oh, and mute wah, of course.
) I can’t determine from the demos if this is a matter of programming, or inherent to the instruments.