How to get this AMAZING staccato Cinematic Studio Brass

#1

Hi guys, I need help on getting this amazing staccato brass with CSB.

https://youtu.be/yDuDSUwx5sE?t=41

My staccato sound muddy and I don’t know why…

Here my example from the trumpets, horns and trombones.

You can see in the waveform too, the attack is slow

The first sixteenth note sounds muddy, the other no, the same for all the brass.

I have set on staccato (articulations) -> repetition, I also tried staccato (art.) -> Staccatissimo etc etc

I have tried all the possible combinations (in my mind xD), but I can’t get this sound :open_mouth:

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#2

Use Eq, compression and reverb. Maybe even a little bit of saturation.

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#3

I’m not familiar with CSB, but some libraries use a combination of note velocity and mod/expression to select articulations. Also, there’s usually some filtering on controls, so you need mod, expression etc to be at the desired values a bit before the note.

Also, is there a delay control somewhere? Intelligent scripting needs some look-ahead for seamless results, and forcing the latency down (if there is an option for that) may cause artifacts.

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#4

Thank you for the video, but they didn’t use EQ, compression, they only use reverb from the studio where they recorded the sample. However this tutorial is amazing.

@olofson ok I’ll give a look on, I don’t think there’s a delay control

#5

They maybe didn’t use anything in their video, but as a long time Kontakt libraries user I tell you honestly that you should mix your orchestral instruments by using audio plugins, because straight out of the box sound is not really good sometimes, anyway you should keep in mind you are working with samples but not real orcheastra, and even if you worked with real orchestra all instruments are different and tracking process can be different because they use different mics. So in our case you should adjust and improve your virtual library sound by adding audio processing on orchestral instruments to cut bad frequencies and add some punch and brightness to your instruments.

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#6

That sounds like some annoying scripting thing. Clearly the first note being played is not a staccatisimo sample. I’ve seen libraries that will script to always start a phrase with a sustain note or something.

In general, scripting sucks at handling repeated notes.

My solution is to create two different instances of the same instrument on two different midi channels and alternate notes between the two instances. I do this all the time…although I’m still never satisfied with my brass articulations, if I’m asking brass to really dance in an agile way.

Indeed, I just bought Samplemodeling’s trumpet to try to improve my brass realism. But my issue is not repeated notes, but fast trumpet runs. I love asking my trumpets to play quick, shouting lines, but sample libraries aren’t great at it.

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#7

Now that I think about it, I wonder if you are using a key switching patch? If so, maybe the solution is to use a dedicated staccato patch. This would take scripting out of the equation.

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#8

Oh! On that note, some libraries do weird things if the key switch notes are too close to the actual notes, and libraries also differ a bit in how they handle the duration/end of key switch notes. If key switching is used here, it might be worth a try experimenting a bit with the timing.

#9

I just found out that I do the same with notes for the brass, shorten them and move them to the left… but I am not familiar with the plugins he is using… I would use just a tiny bit of compression or saturation, Ed and a tine bit of reverb

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#10

First use an EQ, cut out the mud around 300/400hz and add a bit of a high shelf for shimmer.

Then add a transient designer. Pull the sustain down and add a bit of attack. A little goes a long way but just do it by ear.

An optional extra would be to add compression. Compress how you’d usually compress but make sure your attack is pretty slow… I’d suggest around 0.35/0.45 so that your letting transients through but also beefing the signal a little.

Hope this helps.

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#11

I’ll this one.

However there’s not split patch, so I have to use KW :frowning:

#12

Hi @Carlo_Tuzza,

if you can’t get your brass like you want, then use parallel processing, like Transient Shapers and Compression. If this doesn’t help or get a better result, then use layering of similar sounds like synth brass. Because they are synthetic, they have always the right attack, sustain etc. the same with bass. A lot of composers ask, how to get a rich low end bass out of an orchestra. Simple, copy your lowest instrument midi and layer a synth bass under the score. Voila! You don’t hear it, but you feel it :wink:

Best regards,
Alexey
@jlx_music

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#13

Oh man this is sick… didn’t think about brass synth with orchestral synth. I think this will sound super AMAZING hahah.

Thank you for the advice :wink: @jlx_music

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#14

Happy to help :slight_smile:

I believe it’s extremely hard to capture all the little nuances from an instrument when they are recorded as “samples”. There is always something missing in there, especially the “overall feeling”. There is a good reason, why big productions still record live instruments. The first reason is, that live people doing mistakes and capture ALWAYS different emotions. If you listen carefully, you will always find something, even if it’s a needle falling down :slight_smile: 2 passages never sound the same. The second reason, of course, is the money, because they can haha. I remember in my study years we had a live session with an orchestra. We had to write music for. They had to play it. I mean they really played super badly, because they didn’t practice, there was no time for it, but still, they took my idea to a completely new level in terms of “how this cue could sound actually”. It was really charming, even when you heard mistakes etc. Maybe a good example is this, how a live ensemble can transform your music into something else :slight_smile: -> Try not to laugh :smile:

Have a good day!

Alexey

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#15

About the transient plug-in, do you have in mind a waves audio plug-in?

#16

• Native Instruments has one (Komplete), but only whole spectrum
• SPL the same (PluginAlliance)
• Neutron by iZotope (3 Band Split)
• Softube (2 Band Split)

If you do it in parallel, you can use only the one band mode, but if you have more bands, it’s more powerful. In case you can always split a signal in more than 2 bands.

I personally moved away from Waves, as I don’t support their upgrade-system. The same with ProTools. They can have the best software (what they don’t), but at the end of the day I believe if you don’t give your loyal users a better and a fair option to stay with them, it’s a fail. I guess this is why they give basically almost everything for a penny away today. If they would have a better customer plan, they would be back at the top. In the moment they are at the bottom. (But it’s only my opinion :wink: )

Cheers,
Alexey

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#17

More transient shaping options; some less obvious than others:

  • kiloHearts Transient Shaper
  • FabFilter Pro-Q 3 (it’s an EQ, but the dynamic bands in v3 opens up new possibilities)
  • FabFilter Pro-MB (multiband compression; frequency specific transient control possibilities)
  • Heavyocity Punish (easy to automate “depth” of applied effects)

Totally agree on Waves. Their model really grinds my gears… Fine if you don’t get updates/upgrades forever, but it becomes a total PITA to deal with their plugins as soon as you have mixed major versions. Probably just going to forget about them eventually, as I’ve pretty much exclusively moved on to FabFilter, iZotope, kiloHearts etc anyway.

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#18

There’s a trick the pros use with eco Atlantic’s. Grab the super low brass synth and take all the high end out with an EQ. Then copy your lowest part to it and later it just underneath the strings and brass. Wowza, it sounds huge!!

You can also bounce the same file down to audio so you have 2 tracks and use pitch it up an octave… then use a transient shaper to make it sound like a new instrument and add a widener and mix that around the same DB, this gives even more Width to the low end.

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